Steadycombatengineers played Champions Online

Yeah You'll have a much easier go at it if you sidekick with a team with at least one level 28 +

Repeating the same instance 13 times again and again with minimal changes is a chore regardless of your level. I've only done four of them and haven't been able to bring myself to work on any more yet :P

Yes, I sidekicked to a level 40 for a few, they just ran them real fast. It was not about being easy for me, more about being meaningful content. I bailed after a few, really do not care if I get the new powerset or perks. I agree with Allaryin, running the same thing 13 times is a bit much, especailly when they cannot be ran at the level you character currently is, and become meaningless.
I am really want to like this game. but my main problem is that this is not Crytic's first rodeo, this is not the first super hero game they have made, yet I see a lot of the same mistakes. Sometimes I feel like this is a WOW clone with no level adjustments for instances, or missions. Which I guess is a good model to follow, becuase WOW is a popular game.

I think Champions really is one of the best MMO's ever made. We just naturally compare these games at launch to polished products that have been live for 4 or 5 or 10 years. It's hard to catch up to that kind of development history, you can't do it overnight.

As far as being a WoW clone... well, WoW was an EQ/DaOC clone was a Diku clone was a derivative MUD codebase was... ;) Champions is a 4th or 5th generation western MMO, it's bound to have learned a thing or two.

This isn't Cryptic's first rodeo. But it IS the first time they've had to manage the entire process themselves, not just the software development and content creation.

It's a shame this MMO is already starting to die. I think it's should go F2P before it's too late. Like CrimeCraft.

Nah, Champions isn't dying, I'm just not making any official recommendations until the December content patch ;)

Holiday's event are always a learning process, and most 1st annual affairs have some rough edges. The work on them throughout the year and adjust them accordingly.

If the game is dieing...wow a lot of people are enjoying a dieing game.

The way the instances outside of the holiday work are super fun, and when you play the game you realize that the combat system so open that it gives way to the possibility to create custom experiences.

In WoW, if I decide...hmmm the skills I'm getting with this Warlock are a bit lacking I think I'm going to take a bit more AoE spell work from the Mage class...or take a warriors AoE taunt.

I really enjoy both games. I'm not saying one is better than the other and I'm not going to say a blanket over generalization to sound more intelligent than I really am.

Tis is a tough topic that can easily become antagonistic with one post.

@Blamefulgecko @allaryin Why do you think they're already having a free weekend if they're doing so well?
Don't get me wrong, I freaking love the hell outta this game. But it didn't make a very big splash...

Also, why do they even have an ingame store with real money use?

All valid points. I am not going to go as far as to say it is the best MMO ever. Right now for me, it just has too many holes. I do not find my MMO addictive self logging in everyday to play. However I am not ready to say they should go F2P either. I think all MMO's need time, none of them are that good out of the box. I do think that Crytic is reaching that point where people are starting to decide, do I want to keep playing this game, or move on.

As far as the first rodeo. They do know how to make instances that can adjust to level, and team size. They do know how to make a game, where teamiing dynamics are useful. They should have taken that knowledge and used it to make a better game, instead of going backwards, which is what they have done.

It will be interesting to see how champions looks in a year or so.

@xoaks makes a pretty good point, The population has dropped off a bit, have to give him that. The other side of the coin is that is pretty normal for any MMO.

Also let me add, I am not going anywhere, and I really want to like this game, and play it for a long time.

@Steadycombatengineers And i'm not a him....

@xoaks a regretful error on my part !! My sincere apology. I should not have assumed your gender.....

@xoaks, so the cash shop is... really no different than the cash shop for WoW or EQ2.

You can buy a few costume pieces because super hero MMO's are nothing if not Pretty Princess Dress-Me-Up Online :P

But otherwise, it's character renames and slots and stuff that you see hidden away on all other major subscription MMO sites. I like that I can get at the stuff easier and didn't have to navigate through twelve layers of an account page maze just to unlock extra costume slots on my account.

The fact that they've got a bit of F2P style cash shop is probably a bit of experimentation on their part with that payment model. I also think it's more a way of milking regular income out of the lifetime subs who have no other reason to give them money any more ;) If the game lasts more than a year, they start losing money for every lifetime subscription they sold at launch.

I think the stores are becoming a part of any MMO's business model. Not just the free to plays. I know City of Heroes made a ton of money off server transfers, and special packages like the wedding pack. I will really like to know how much WOW is making off the new faction and race changes they are charging $25.00 or $30.00 for.

They target the MMO junkies like myself that are already hooked on a game, and will spend money, to change something, or get more player slots.

Since I quit CO after my free month, I won't say I know for sure the community is dying. But when you get a bunch of free retcons (obviously because they don't know how to address the powers issues), or see the economy tank, or get people like me and others canceling, it all leads to subscription decline. Free weekends are not a sign of game is doing good when you don't hear anything else about the game. Just like free retcons don't solve the actual issue. And then at the very end, the content just falls off. We (everyone), don't like to wait for content, especially when we compare games to other games (everyone does this too).

@ Steadycombatengineers - This is going beyond MMOs in making $. Server transfers, cash shops, etc, are just the beginning. Gold farming, 3rd party stores, are the extension. And the influence? Look at MW2, Dragon Age, and DLC that is becoming pay to play, when they used to be free.

Want a old example? Sims expansion packs galore. The only reason a game would have lifetime subscriptions is if they didn't plan on the game lasting very long in the first place. This allows them to get a large cash infusion at the start.

I'm going to stop here.

I guess you aren't interested in the dev chats, Avs. You wouldn't say: (obviously because they don't know how to address the powers issues).

I can't really follow the rest of your argument because it doesn't make any sense. I guess your saying Server transfers and cash shops lead to gold farming and 3rd party stores? You may want to rethink that.

People leave after the first month that's just how every mmo has work. No suprise...people will say it's dieing.

Lastly, please name an mmo that you didn't have to wait for content at launch. I guess you only play games that have been out for at least a year? You have an amazing amount of patience and I commend you.

Considering I had quit the game already, there wouldn't be much of a point for me to follow the dev chats. I made this clear that I don't know for a fact what the community is like now. But just based off of my experience, and how MMOs work in general, you rarely gain more people after a game has been released AFTER a fallout period.

You didn't get my point, server transfers and cash shops, gold farming and 3rd party stores are all related in the sense they sell services for cash. They are essentially the same thing, official or not.

To counter your argument that people leave after the first month and will say its dying: people who stay with a MMO also hang on the the hope that its growing and the like. Since neither of us care to discuss that fact, lets not go there.

An MMO that you didn't have to wait for content at launch? Ultima, WoW, I dont know, maybe its because I level up too fast for my own good and don't take it slow. That could be it.

By the way, nobody has patience to pay a monthly subscription to wait on content and then believe its justified UNLESS they are hanging on to that simple notion of believing in the game. That makes you just as biased as me. You must not care about what it means to develop a decent game these days.

Oh yeah and sorry if you took offense to what I said, as you obviously defended why you are still playing a game against others who also felt that the game didn't have potential. Nobody is judging you or cares about where you are spending your money.

Buying MMO's and quitting after a month has become a disease. Everyone does it... and the developers know it. This leads them to launch with about one month's worth of content in mind any more. :(

LOL, so true, I am hearing good thing about Star Trek online....

No real "panic" signs here. Cryptic did a great job of integrating purchases into the CoX client character select window - the cstore is a pretty obvious evolution for them, one I was surprised to see limited to action figures when I first started playing and greeted with a "ah, there we go" when they finally added CoX style purchasable items (slots, renames, etc.).

Free trials are also something Cryptic always offered during holiday events for CoX. More "exactly what I expected from them."

As far as population goes - we know that the game isn't doing spectacularly well (they'd be screaming it to the review 'zines for the publicity if they were doing any big numbers). On the other hand, the server definitely isn't dead - always plenty of activity. The game isn't a million-breaker, and isn't a desert. Nothing to panic or get excited about unless you're really stretching to justify a pre-existing opinion.

I understand that though - my sour grapes are with WAR. Spent two tears tracking that game, participating in beta, and my mouth is so full of bitter grapes over what it could have been that I find it tough to accept that the absolute crud that was finally produced isn't completely dead in the water. Enough people actually like what was made to make it a quietly profitable MMO, despite the fact that I can't even see the logo without getting pissed off.

That was Tabula Rasa for me. Played it from F&F alpha until they started ruining it in open beta. I watched the game go from awesome to sufficiently terrible that I didn't even try to play during the close of beta event and didn't purchase up my reserved copy.

WAR... they just lost me to a billing system failure once my free month expired :P

As far as "exactly what I expected" goes... I think you're spot on there. Free weekends are something cultural with CoH.

I find it funny that the number they're bragging up is the million characters created (I think my main is character ID 1221), not their actual number of subs. If we assume an average of 5 alts per subscriber that's >200k players, which makes them bigger than Second Life but smaller than EVE.

LOL, Skyles, tell us how you really feel about WAR, don't hold back. I still play it, not the worse game I have every played.

My thoughts on the free weekend wreee that it did seem to be a bit early. But really the MMO market has become more competitve this year. More choices then ever. So I think MMO's are using free weekends to try to attact people back, even if it is for only a month or so. I think City of Heroes has had two Double XP weekends, since champions was released, and the last one was like five days long. I see games like WAR, offering a free trial as long as you are in Tier 1. Crimecraft has some type of free unlimited trial. DDO changed its business model as well. So after thinking about it, the champions online free weekend so early might be more of reflection of MMO market place, they a dwindling population.

@Avs - Are you sure you want to use WoW as an example? Did you play at launch? One end game dungeon, no pvp other than flagging and raiding a town, I remember those days...do you? We waited for content and enjoyed the game for what launched...even though I couldn't loot things properly for a week.
@Skyles I really appreciate what they did in COH with the shop there. They were very careful to say that every bit of the profit was going to the next content patch coming out. In fact, the wedding pack that I bought got me my Villain Epic powerset earlier! I'm hoping CO is doing the same thing.

@Blamefulgecko Laugh, only a week? I don't think you could mine or harvest earthroot safely for a year after WoW's launch w/o occasionally getting stuck :P

Oh my goodness! Don't remind me! I just plain didn't craft in the beginning. It was really annoying since I was to the blacksmith.